Clever title; not obvious at all. I know.
Until Thursday, many of us will be chatting along, spinning our wheels, regarding whether or not Pat Riley is going to forsake (or at least alter) his plans to improve this team in the offseason, in favor of a sooner move.
- The train on bringing Caron home (possibly with Haywood as a tag along) has departed.
- Amar'e appears headed for Cleveland ...or to be staying in Phoenix.
- Bryan Colangelo is holding on to Chris Bosh like a hungry man with a Whopper.
What does this all mean for the good inhabitants of the AAA?
That's the thing. Regardless of your personal opinion on the matter, I think the one thing we can agree on is that when Riley does strike big via trade, you don't really see it coming. Who knows what the Man in Armani could have brewing. Who was predicting G-Money getting shipped out of town for Zo? The Shaq rumblings caught me entirely off guard. (Btw, thanks Anthony Carter). The 5 team-13 player deal that cemented the championship run? Shaq for Marion? All pretty much out of the blue to me. Even the regrettable Ricky Davis trade was a bombshell (largely because we figured there was no way in hell we could move Walker, but still). Perhaps the move to be made in leading us back to prosperity is the one none of us see coming.
...or maybe Riles is going to wait it out until this summer. Enjoy the run of (often misleading) talk until this Thursday.
reposted:
ReplyDeleteadam, i think you're right about getting more athletes out there on defense, but i think our defensive mistakes get amplified when we play such a slow pace on offense. in the modern day nba, there are lot of 3pt shooters out there and teams will eventually get on hot streaks beyond the arc. our offensive philosophy gives us such a small margin of error on defense, defensive intensity is just not sustainable for a long stretch given our personnel. plus, who's a defensive guy out there we can grab?
we need firepower inside to make the game easier on everybody else. with the exception of wade, we're a jumpshooting team. we're essentially the bulls.
i think our roster has plenty of capable shooters, respectively speaking. jo, beasley and haslem hold down the midrange. while our three-point shooters are inconsistent, i think q-rich has proven himself in the past (maybe distant past), cook might bounce back the second half of the season, jones showed in the playoffs he could step in, and dorrell looks good launching from either baseline.
our glaring weakness is in the interior. and like d_webz says, i'd take stoudemire all day in the east, particularly the bottom half playoff squads where you go up against guys like brad miller, joakim noah, bogut, bargnani, dalembert, etc.
"i just don't envision beasley as the type of long-term running mate that wade deserves."
ReplyDeleteThat's completely fair. I don't agree, but that's not an opinion that I have a problem with. I also agree that we should ideally pair Wade with a great running mate that can make us a legit contender.
I don't think Amare is that guy. I think he's vastly overrated (due to the Suns' style of offense and the fact that he's being fed by Nash), and I think in 2 years, Beasley will be a better player as Amare's athleticism drops off and Beasley's game grows.
I think the ideal scenario would be the Heat going into the 2010 off-season and signing LeBron, Bosh, Amare, or Joe Johnson, and rolling with a Wade-free agent signing-Beasley core for the next 8 years. For the next 3 years, Beasley could be the third wheel to one of those dynamic duos. Then in 3 years, as Wade is starting to decline, we could have Beasley just peaking as a player and entering his prime. What we lose with Wade aging, we gain with Beasley aging.
And then when Wade finally retires, we would have a legit piece in Beasley to start re-building around instead of starting all over again.
I would also add Bimbo Coles/Kevin Willis for Tim Hardaway/Chris Gatling along with two other deadline deals for Walt Williams, Tyrone Corbin and Tony Smith in 1996 as shockers that helped turn the Heat into his team halfway into his first season in charge.
ReplyDeleteGlen Rice was my favorite Heat player... I was actually sad the day we traded him, but knew Zo was gonna be my favorite in no time. What a great player!
Nice post. I think -- or hope, at least -- that at the end of the day, if we make any moves, they're relatively minor.
ReplyDeleteThe kinds of moves I'd want us to make are not the ones we're being linked to. I'd love to bring in a guy like Kyle Lowry to be a cheap starting PG for us next year. I'd love to make a move for Monta Ellis, which would also take care of our PG gap, while still leaving us room for a max signing in free agency.
I'm good with any move that brings us a meaningful piece, preferably for next year, but even for this year, so long as it leaves us with enough cap room to make one max signing in the off-season. That's all the cap room I care about.
josh, i find it hard to argue with your concern for the long term vision of the franchise. a number two overall pick is something the heat shouldn't want to part with so lightly. easily understood.
ReplyDeletebut i don't think amare is vastly overrated. he was a beast before nash got there, and i don't think his game is as dependent on flat-out running as say, marion's game is. plus, i think it's hard to project that amare's athleticism in two years will degrade his talent considering he and wade are the same age. i'd give he and wade a four-five year window on their primes.
four or five years is an eternity. four or five years can completely alter the landscape of your franchise. don't take that lightly. miami's hopes of being relevant are tied primarily to what wade can accomplish during his prime. honestly, i don't think we can afford to wait around yet another year to see if this kid from k-state is the beast we all thought he would be.
however, we won't necessarily be locked into amare for four or five years. chances are, he'll opt out this summer and we'll still have the flexibility to sign whoever we want.
"our glaring weakness is in the interior."
ReplyDeleteI don't agree offensively. Offensively, I think we're fine on the interior. Most great teams are not getting their scoring from big men on the interior. Boston, Cleveland, Denver, Oklahoma City, Dallas, Phoenix -- those teams aren't getting any more interior scoring from their big men than we are.
Defensively, I totally agree that we are soft as hell on the interior. We need a big ugly at center that can rebound, block shots, and push people around. If he can set picks and catch the ball, he's fine offensively.
Offensively, IMO, like you said -- our outside shooters are not performing. QRich, Daequan, and James Jones might have the name-value, but none of them are shooting well this season. Well, Jones isn't even playing. But QRich and Daequan are not shooting well.
But our biggest problem offensively, IMO, is our lack of creators. We currently have zero point guards that are NBA-quality scorers or playmakers. Carlos Arroyo got signed by us a week before the season started. Chalmers has been terrible. Rafer Alston got cut by the worst team in the history of the NBA. At SF, QRich doesn't create off the dribble at all. Dorell is the closest thing we have to a perimeter playmaker outside of Wade -- that's not good.
Get us a legit point guard -- something in between Kyle Lowry and Monta Ellis -- and we're much better. Add a Brendan Haywood type center, and we're right there with the top 4 in the East. Add a star to that in free agency, and you've got a legit contender.
"chances are, he'll opt out this summer and we'll still have the flexibility to sign whoever we want."
ReplyDeleteIf he opts out and doesn't re-sign, we're going into the off-season with room for one max signing and one $12 million signing. You'd rather have that than a max signing + Beasley + a $7.5 million signing, just to have Amare for the rest of this season?
I guess we just have very different opinions on Amare. IMO, replace Beasley with Amare this year and we probably still don't get out of the first round if you make no other moves. Then in the off-season you probably end up with something like Bosh, Felton, and Brendan Haywood instead of Bosh, Felton, and Beasley.
Nice first blog Lord Hades. Well done.
ReplyDeletei would love to see another creator on this squad, but i think our offensive need at pg is overblown. we've tried so many pgs already and truth is, there aren't many out there you'd rather have handling the ball in the fourth over wade. a pg for three quarters is not what we need.
ReplyDeleteyou're right, a lot of teams seem to be doing fine without a lot of interior scoring, but that fact doesn't make interior scoring less of a valuable commodity. despite our lack of overall talent, a decisive offensive advantage on the inside (not to mention the variable that is wade's ability to play out of his mind) would give us a puncher's chance in any seven game series.
if we land amare, i have a feeling riley won't stop there. there's a chance we can still get a defensive-minded, rebounding big. we'll need one.
Fair enough. I've got to run, but it was nice chatting with you. I think the core of our disagreement here is just over Amare's value. If we end up making this trade, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. I don't expect it, though -- and I don't expect us to make the trade. I think Phoenix is bluffing.
ReplyDeleteI really do hope we can land some perimeter playmakers, though. I believe that outside of Wade, we don't have a perimeter player that would be a rotation player for a legit contender right now.
josh, with amare, i like our chances better against atlanta in the playoffs. against boston, it'll depend on health, but if kg continues to struggle physically, i think we can win that series.
ReplyDeletei just think losing beasley's contract will give us more flexibility to get players who will gel better with wade in the short term, meaning for the rest of his prime. use it on smaller pieces--mercenary outside shooters, defensive specialists, a serviceable veteran pg, a quality back up big--or give yourself some more space to chase a mid-level/mediocre all-star/team usa guy like joe johnson or rudy gay.
i think we should just sell out on the next few years of good ball wade has left. he's the best thing to ever happen to this franchise.
nice chatting with you, josh. it was real civil and constructive. see you around.
ReplyDeleteTroy (Arizona)
ReplyDeleteDo you think the Heat will make any trades before the deadline?
Chris Sheridan (3:02 PM)
Your question is quite timely Troy, because they might make one by the end of the day. They have a $4.26 million trade exception from the Marcus Banks deal, and it expires tonight at 11:59 p.m. As for their intrest in Stoudemire, it would have to be in a deal centered around Jermaine O'Neal going back, since Mickey Atison spoke so strongly over the weekend of Michael Beasley as one of the key foundation pieces.
------------------
If Riley touches that trade exception (which I highly doubt he does), rest assured the dominoes have begun to fall. No sense in kicking up the tax bill for what can get with 4M by itself.
Thanks for the kudos, Chris.
The difference between all the moves in Lord Hades original post and moves today is the internet wasn't really prominent back in the day. These days it's much harder to keep things under wraps. If Riley is looking to make a move we will hear about it somewhat ahead of time one way or another. It's not like we're going to hear Iguodala/Dalembert are available, Stoudamire is available, Beasley isn't available, and then wake up one day to see Riley has traded Beasley and JO for Chris Paul and Okafor.
ReplyDeleteI think we'll hear about any deal before it happens. Eddie Omaha pretty much predicted the Walker for Davis swap.
My least favorite Riley deadline deal:
ReplyDeleteike Austin and a first round pick for Brent Barry. I actually thought it was a good trade until Riley left Brent off of the playoff roster.
Here's a list of all of the deadline deals dating back to 1987:
http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-trade-deadline.shtml
Did we seriously just have a 20 minute conversation about whether Big Show would beat Floyd Mayweather in a fight in the chatroom?
ReplyDeleteYup...LOL
ReplyDeleteProps to Hades and Cyrus on the last 2 blogs. Chris took the day off with an injured pinky. He should be back in 3-5 days.
ReplyDeleteAs far as trades go, I htink these last 2 games were right on time. If we can go out and win our next 3 in the same fashion, all is well. In all of our wins I have said something bad about Spo, even the last 2 and will probably continue to do so. The last 2 wins tho, I also gave him props for seeing change in the offense. Imo it didnt have a whole lot to do with the opponent as we went from Houston to Atl, but the players obviously played with more freedom and offensive intent. Our 2 starting forwards werent even major contributors and the offense still looked good. All of these guys have something to offer in spurts. What the losses made us lose sight of is the importance to groom depth on this team as we look to build a contender. That means keeping and developing Cook, Wright, and Beasley.Lets just hope theirs a good emphasis on that in the 2nd half of the season.
ReplyDeleteLord Hades said...
ReplyDeleteTroy (Arizona)
Do you think the Heat will make any trades before the deadline?
Chris Sheridan (3:02 PM)
Your question is quite timely Troy, because they might make one by the end of the day. They have a $4.26 million trade exception from the Marcus Banks deal, and it expires tonight at 11:59 p.m. As for their intrest in Stoudemire, it would have to be in a deal centered around Jermaine O'Neal going back, since Mickey Atison spoke so strongly over the weekend of Michael Beasley as one of the key foundation pieces.
------------------
If Riley touches that trade exception (which I highly doubt he does), rest assured the dominoes have begun to fall. No sense in kicking up the tax bill for what can get with 4M by itself.
Thanks for the kudos, Chris.
-------
i thought the trade exception expired at 3pm?
i mean, THAT'S WHAT IRA SAID.
Interesting article:
ReplyDelete“A source said the five-time All-Star center let it be known that he does not want to come to Cleveland.
The Cavs have reportedly been informed of that news and have gone in another direction”
“Since Stoudemire owns a house in the Miami area, some think he eventually wants to play for the Heat.”
http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2010/02/15/sports/nh2098390.txt
This Amar'e drama just gets funnier and funnier. You could probably make a nice game of BINGO out of what gets mentioned; Has house in Miami, contender, opt-out, extension; diva; stretch 4, young talent, etc.
ReplyDeleteGood snag, Ali.
I am so glad Mikey put the hammer down on the Beasley traded nonsense. I just hope he wasn't bullshiting.
ReplyDeleteAdam said...
ReplyDeleteI just hope he wasn't bullshiting.
FEBRUARY 15, 2010 8:00 PM
This close to the deadline? I highly doubt it. Playtime is over.
Now...if we could rent Amare for the rest of this season and keep Beasley, I'm for it
ReplyDeleteBrian Widnhorst: Contrary to reports, sources say Amar'e Stoudemire has not told Cavs he doesn't want to play in Cleveland. Twitter.com
ReplyDeleteAdrian Wojnaroski: Source close to Stoudemire says he's completely open to Cleveland, loves idea of playing with LBJ and has never indicated otherwise to Cavs. Twitter.com
don't EVER listen to Ira. you'll end up in CAPTCHA Hell.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Arison say we weren't going to trade Beasley? And didn't Wade say he isn't so much interested in the results of this year but rather in what happens this summer. Thank gawd that Wade isn't so stupid as to think all these expiring players are going to matter past this year. I just hope Cook and Beas and Chalmers will make a U-Turn with their un-"development". Sad to see guys regress - though Chalmers was more smoke and mirrors last year. If Cook gets his shot back, I think he learned enough this summer to at least pump-fake and take a step or two in if necessary. Beasley is starting to pass the ball better as he is starting to get doubled. It's sad to see JJones completely disappear - wasn't he Spo's golden child last year after the ASB???
If this season were about winning, Arroyo would see more time than Chalmers does (glad Cheech& Chalmers got injured - not nice to say or think though).
Maybe this weekend re-energizes Wade and he gets his band of scrubs to play more like a team - IN SPITE OF Spo. This team isn't athletic and definitely has junk in it, but more could be made out of it than Spo is able to do. That is what is sad. ... Well, at least we got rid of Chris Quinn. Sad that things were so bad that Riley through that $$ away on him.
A (possibly) last thought: Too bad AI backed out of the AS game. It would have been nice to see him in the back-court with Wade since that won't ever happen in a Heat uniform.
Happy for Wade that he got to shine again. Tomorrow is what, philly????
Read this article and see how Sludge is really a mixture of Ira and Spo.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-miami-heat-erik-spoelstra-s021510,0,2646940.story
Sludge = Spoira
FEBRUARY 15, 2010 8:15 PM
ReplyDeleteGood post. Philly should be an intriguing game. First matchup this season with the Heat. Too bad Iverson isn't playing, I would have loved to have seen him light up the Heat point guards and make Riley cry.
I agree Chris
ReplyDeleteIf we get Bosh, figure out a way to play him with Beasley and Wade, and, of course, dump Spo... well, we would still need to build a supporting cast and I'm not sure if Bosh instead of LBJ is going to draw a lot of players willing to play for less to go for a 'ship. Hell, Orlando made it to the finals last year, I didn't see a long line of guys waiting to sign on. All I've seen is Wallace to the Celtics and Artest to LA.
ReplyDeleteLooks like today is the calm before the storm. Everyone must be shopping around other teams offers trying to get better offers from other teams. Expect the shit to start hitting the fan tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteOne thing is certain. We need to root for Amare to NOT get traded to Cleveland. This would put a serious wrench in the Heat's rebuilding plan because the rebuilding plan must include some type of low post interior presence. If Amare goes to Cleveland it is almost certain he will stay there long term with Lebron and the only other big man available will be Bosh. But what happens if Bosh resigns with Toronto? We would be royally screwed.
In conclusion, Amare was supposed to be our fallback option in case we lost out on Lebron and Bosh. We need that fallback plan to be available in the summer!
I laughed so hard at Sledge being Spoira...
ReplyDeleteFrom Ira's blog post:
ReplyDeleteSo it certainly could be argued that the best lineup might just be Wade at point guard, Cook at shooting guard, Wright at small forward, with Michael Beasley, Udonis Haslem and Jermaine O’Neal sharing the minutes in the power rotation.
I love how Ira had to squeeze a 6th man (Haslem) into our best lineup :)
If we don't re-sign Haslem, does Ira quit and get a job wherever UD does sign?
ReplyDeletehttp://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4917483
ReplyDeleteFrom Twitter-land:
ReplyDeletehttp://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ
Just filed to ESPN.com: Miami working H-A-R-D to recruit third team to trump Cleveland in Amare Sweepstakes. Link forthcoming. Also ...
http://twitter.com/Amareisreal
I play very well w/Shaq. I averaged more pts last year WITH him & played better D. You guys can stop saying we don't play well together.
Is it me or did Ira not make any mention of the Arison piece saying that Beasley is basically "Off Limits!!!"
ReplyDeleteWTF is up with that guy!!!!LMAO!!!!!
I read that too Cyrus and cracked up laughing till my side started hurting. He named 2 guards, 3 forwards and 1 center. Did he forget you can only have 5 players on the court at a time...LMAO!!!!!!!!
Ira's a joke!!!!!!!!
Keep up the good work kkboy80!!!!!!!!
Also it still wouldn't let me except the invite kkboy... I may send you my yahoo e-mail...LMAO!!!!!!
If Beasley gets traded for Amare what will our mood be?
ReplyDeleteExcited
Depressed
Disgusted
Optimistic
Nuetral
Regretfull
My personal feeling if the trade goes down is that it better have been done because Riley thinks it will be easier to recruit Lebron or Bosh to sign here in the summer. And if they don't get one of those two they BETTER get Rudy Gay or J. Johnson!
Thoughts?
Just the fact that it almost guarantees that d wade stays with us, makes it worth it. If Amare is what it takes for wade to play at his highest level then do it.
ReplyDeleteHeat coming hard after Amar'e by ESPN's Marc Stein link:
ReplyDeletehttp://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4917483
The Miami Heat have intensified their efforts to trump Cleveland in the chase for Phoenix Suns forward Amare Stoudemire, sources close to the situation said Monday.
The Heat emerged from the All-Star break even more determined than they were before to find a third team to help them broker an Amare deal before Thursday's 3 p.m. deadline.
Miami is "coming hard" after Stoudemire, one source said.
Stoudemire
Although the Heat have first-round picks available to sweeten any Stoudemire deal -- with the Suns hoping to come away with at least one first-rounder if they decide to trade Stoudemire this week -- sources say Phoenix has no interest in taking back Jermaine O'Neal's hefty expiring contract because, at $23 million, it requires more players to be worked into the deal than the Suns are comfortable with.
Yet one source insisted Monday night that the Suns have not ruled out taking back forward Michael Beasley as part of a Stoudemire deal. The Heat -- after carefully preserving their salary-cap space for months -- are suddenly pushing hard to make a big trade splash now if possible instead of waiting for free agency in July and gambling on the idea that they can lure a marquee name such as LeBron James or Chris Bosh to South Beach to flank Dwyane Wade.
The Cavaliers are prepared to send Zydrunas Ilgauskas' expiring contract, young power forward J.J. Hickson and perhaps draft considerations to the Suns for Stoudemire, who appeared to give Cleveland further motivation to make that bold move when he used his Twitter feed Monday night to scoff at speculation that he and Cavs center Shaquille O'Neal can't co-exist.
"You guys can stop saying we don't play well together," Stoudemire tweeted.
A pick from the perennially contending Cavs obviously wouldn't be as enticing as a Miami draft pick, but sources say that Cleveland also continues to chase longtime target Antawn Jamison in case Miami assembles a better deal for Stoudemire. It likewise remains to be seen whether Philadelphia decides to make Andre Iguodala available after making it clear before the All-Star break that they are not prepared to surrender Iguodala in a Stoudemire deal.
"They're the wild card," one source said of the Sixers.
The Cavs resume play Thursday at home against Denver riding a 13-game win streak, but they still hope to come away with a big player by week's end. While Stoudemire leads their list, the Cavs have also been mentioned in relation to Washington's Jamison and Indiana's Troy Murphy. Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard on Monday that the Cavs are also in talks with the Warriors about Corey Maggette.
The Suns, meanwhile, appear intent on finally finding a workable trade for Stoudemire before the deadline -- even though the sides did briefly discuss a contract extension during All-Star Weekend in Dallas -- after shopping him heavily at last season's trading deadline as well. Stoudemire is averaging 21.2 points and 8.6 rebounds this season and started at center for the West in Sunday's All-Star Game.
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=4917644
ReplyDeleteAnother domino falls as Portland obtains Marcus Camby for Blake and Outlaw
beat me to it
ReplyDeleteSomething tells me Blake and outlaw will be packaged to Miami for qrich or haslem if we acquire Amare for Beasley. Dunleavy and Arison are very good friends. Outlaw and Blake are gonna leave LA after the season so it's curious they gave up Camby for other expirings. We improve our lineup this year without sacrificing 2010.
ReplyDeleteBlake
Wade
Outlaw
Amare
J.Oneal
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletejgtruth, all those point guards on our roster and no backup at the 4?
ReplyDeleteCLE had talks with Wiz on Antawn Jamison Monday, but didn't chat with Pacers on Troy Murphy, sources say. Indy has 4-5 suitors for Murphy.
ReplyDeleteabout 1 hour ago from web
Free Chef , your right. I guess it would be have to be Qrich and nor Haslem going to the Clipps.
ReplyDeletehttp://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-cambytrade021510&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
ReplyDeleteread that story
ReplyDeleteadrian, that's a great story but i think it's a typical response. no player "enjoys" the process of being traded. ray allen was quoted as saying there's always hard feelings towards the team that trades you. everybody will get over it though.
ReplyDeleteso much irony. sitting with the team, having dinner, and finding out from the other team's GM that they traded for you. thats some BS man. dunleavy couldnt tell the man?
ReplyDeleteto be that upset, it just sounds like they mislead him a lil bit
ReplyDelete"mislead" is a strong word. i'm sure most nba players evaluate their own importance to the team differently than gm's do.
ReplyDeleteSportscenter reporting Miami in the lead to acquire Stoudemire!!!
ReplyDeletepraise the lord
ReplyDeleteWell since Beasley has basically been declared "Off-Limits", I tried to come up with some creative deals not involving Beasley to land us Amare.
ReplyDeleteMan I see how Eddie is addicted to the Trade Machine....LOL It's pretty fun... I like them all, but prefer them in this order 2,4,3,1,5. I tried to make deals that helps each team involved, I think they all are pretty fair deals. Of course Haslem's value sure comes into play in most deals involving him....LMAO!!!!!
Check it out and let me know what you guys think...
Deal #1 Miami, Phoenix and Sacramento
Heat sends Haslem to Kings and Q. Richardson to Suns
Kings send Kevin Martin and Kenny Thomas to the Suns
Suns send Stoudemire and Hill to Heat and J. Richardson to Kings....
Miami throws in some cash and picks to make it enticing for Sacramento and Phoenix.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykum4qu
Deal #2 Miami, Phoenix and Washington
Heat sends O'Neal to the Wizards and Richardson to the Suns
Wizards send Miller to Heat and Jamison to the Suns
Suns send Stoudemire to the Heat and Hill to the Wizards
Again we sweeten the deal with some picks and cash to both the Suns and Wizards.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykamav7
Deal #3Miami, Houston and Phoenix
Heat sends O'Neal and Richardson to the Rockets and Wright to the Suns
Rockets send McGrady and Scola to the Suns and Lowry and B. Cook to the Heat
Suns send Stoudemire and Hill to the Heat and Barbosa to the Rockets
Once again we would throw out some picks and cash to sweeten the deal.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzc93n3
Deal #4 Miami, Phoenix and Chicago
Heat sends Haslem and Richardson the Bulls
Bulls send T. Thomas and Salmons to the Suns and J. Pargo to the Heat
Suns send Stoudemire to the Heat
Of course we're still using our picks as bait and cash.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygpbhal
Trade #5 Miami, Phoenix and the New Orleans
Heat sends Wright and Richardson to the Hornets and Haslem to the Suns
Hornets send Stojakovic to the Suns and Posey to the Heat
Suns send Stoudemire to the Heat and Barbosa to the Hornets
Of course we're still using our picks as bait and cash.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzy9fqv
I had a ton of others and may continue to put them up for debates, but I'm just trying to see how Riley does it...LMAO!!!!!
ReplyDeleteTell me what you guys think is fair or poor or whatever...
Enjoy!!!!!!!
Let's get Amare!!!!!!
DO YOUR DO DILIGENCE RILEY!!!!!!! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!!
Nice write-up on D-Wade winning the Allstar game MVP...
ReplyDeleteEnjoy!!!!
Dwyane Wade reminds the basketball world that he’s indeed Dwyane Wade, picks up MVP and leads East to All-Star victory, 141-139
by Matthew Bunch
It was a great piece from Rahat Huq of Red94 that summarized the relationship most of the league has with Dwyane Wade:
Dwyane Wade shouldn’t be losing. It’s unthinkable. Where can we send him? Who can we bring to his aid?
Obviously, this blog cannot support the “Where can we send him?” approach, but the sentiment is genuine and valid. Dwyane Wade is a guy who looks like and sounds like he wants to win sooooooo bad, it hurts to watch him struggle. That’s why Sunday night was so satisfying.
He glided across that court, surrounded by an exorbitant amount of people in Jerry Jones’ testament to his self-confidence issues. He melded with the talent around him, dishing when needed then turning into Mr. Big Shot when it mattered. When he wants to win, and he has the tools around him, he finds a way, even in a pointless exhibition.
But was it really pointless for him? If you’ve read around certain blogs or listened to certain talk radio, there were doubts creeping in about Wade’s ability. Much like two years ago. Of course, he came out and knocked the doubters back with a season unlike anyone else’s in the league, including Kobe Bryant, MVP be damned.
Now, one exhibition game certainly doesn’t compare to one entire season. But with all the doubt, uncertainty and second-guessing about Wade’s commitment to the team – and the level of commitment the team should have to Wade – it’s good to have a little reminder that, yes, Dwyane Wade is still Dwyane Wade, and yes, he does stack up with anyone else in the league.
If Beasley gets traded for Amare what will our mood be?
ReplyDeleteExcited
Depressed
Disgusted
Optimistic
Nuetral
Regretfull
==============
depressed, disgusted, regretful.
let's hope riley isn't that stupid.
steve kerr gave his good friend danny ferry shaq for a cheeseburger and now it looks like he's going to give him amare for a big mac.
lots of interesting trades d_webz. any trade that gets us amare while keeping beasley and getting rid of haslem will be absolutely brilliant.
ReplyDeletecan riley make it happen?
THANK YOU to Kb, Chris, and all contributors for giving me a sanctuary where I don't have to read the confused and dellusional ramblings of I-Lose. Ira's blog has turned into I-Lose vs Sledge.....kind of fitting.
ReplyDeleteI think I-Lose might be GKall.....anybody with me? The undetermined love for Spo and Hate for Beasley is too much to be a coincidence.
ReplyDeleteTylerD said...
ReplyDeletelots of interesting trades d_webz. any trade that gets us amare while keeping beasley and getting rid of haslem will be absolutely brilliant.
can riley make it happen?
February 16, 2010 6:47 AM
I would think Haslem + Q-Rich + Cook/Wright/Picks should be better than what the Cavs can offer for Amare but Kerr and Ferry are total butt buddies and don't seem to care about making deals that make sense.
I don't think the Heat are making any moves. Already they could have upgraded C (Haywood, Camby) or SF (Butler, Howard). Add to that the very real possibility of Boozer or Amare. Riley's waiting until free agency. At this point, we could have had Baron Davis, Wade, Butler, Amare/Boozer/Haslem, and Haywood/Camby. If Riley's not pulling the trigger for those moves, I don't think he's pulling the trigger for anyone that is available.
ReplyDeleteAgreed dsky0921 and TylerD!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteKerr's pretty much playing homey ball between he and Ferry, similar to McHale and Ainge (KG Deal), West and Kuchap (Gasol Deal) or the Shaq Deal between the 2 of them last summer. David Stern should investigate situations like that as opposed to nitpicking most of the other situations he does all season long!!!
The Gasol had to be the worst in the history of the NBA, fortunately the pick turned into something tangible for Memphis in Marc Gasol, but Pau for Kwame Brown!!!!! That's still unbelievable right now, it's actually pretty funny!!!
Does RIley have any friends or has he screwed everyone he comes in contact with? I think it's the latter. Just thinking about how he got to Miami speaks for itself.....LMAO!!!!!! The last favor he got from the Lakers put us in the position we're in now...LMAO!!!!! With friends like those Mr. Buss, who needs enemies. Shaq cost us our 1st-12th born child and a partridge in a pear tree, but the championship in '06 was worth it, I think....LMAO!!!!!
"CONTINUE TO DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE RILES!!!!!!!!!"
"..... Amare/Boozer/Haslem, and Haywood/Camby."
ReplyDeleteThat's one or the other, not both Amare and Boozer or Haywood and Camby.
The ONLY move I WANT Riley to make is trading for Rudy Gay. IF he can package Cook and Wright with a no.1 then it's almost a wash in salaries, allowing Miami to sign a max guy next summer to ADD to Wade/Gay/Beasley....imagine that. Then still have some room to sign a decent PG.
ReplyDeleteFA
Wade
Gay
Beasley
Bosh
Game on.
I like that idea FMB. Very nice strong starting 5 with enough weapons to rest everyone and keep each other fresh for closing out games, but my fear with Bosh is in any deal for him this summer it'll probably cost us Beasley. That's why I say rent Amare now. I he works out resign him or package him in a sign and trade for Bosh this summer and you still get to keep Beasley as the young stud who can blossom underneath Allstars. Just my opinion. I just don't see Toronto letting Bosh walk for nothing!!!
ReplyDeleteI don't think they can keep Beasley, Wade, sign Gay to a max ($13.5 mil) and sign another max guy ($17 mil). After Wade resigns there will be like $25-27 mil in cap space. Take away a $13.5 mil max deal for Gay and you're left with $12-15 mil. That's why last week I brought up trading Beasley if they get Bosh. You'd use Beasley, plus the extra cap space, to either take in one guy around $13-14 mil (Gay) or split it among two guys (Hinrich, Camby, etc).
ReplyDeleteGay is an RFA and his cap hold with be around 4.5mil, we don't have to sign him until after we sign a max guy. If we dump Cook and Jones then Gay's cap hold would be almost exactly what those two are due. Until we actually re-sign Gay, his cap # is his cap hold of about 4.5mil. Obviously when he signs the Heat will go over the cap, but for that starting 5 it would definitely be worth it. That team would compete for 6-7 years at a very high level. Have a 4-5 yr window for titles.
ReplyDeleteDue to Riley's negligence at his job the past three years, he has no choice but to wait for 2010 at this point. There's no deal he could make(not that he's capable of making a good one anyway), that could improve this team more than 2010 potentially coulld.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if that's correct, but I see what you are saying. I believe this is one of the issue with base year compensation players being involved in trades?
ReplyDeleteI don't really see the Grizzlies trading Gay for Wright and Cook. I'd love it for the Heat.
I think the Heat would have throw atleast one draft pick in there, maybe two. Heisley is a cheap arse and I don't think he has any intention of signing Gay after he lowballed him this year. He offered Gay around 50mil/5yrs....freaking Aldridge got 65mil/5yrs from Por. That's a big gap.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you can use cap space and exceptions (Bird Rights) in the same offseason. Unless Riles blows up the team's expirings before Thursday, we're looking at a 2010 roster under 54M (or whatever the cap will be).
ReplyDeleteOf course, I haven't looked a cap/tax primer in a while.
Hades,
ReplyDeleteYou're right, the Heat would only have cap space. So trading for a Gay would be the only way to sneak a young, allstar caliber player into the mix. If not it's Bosh plus probably an over the hill FA who will probably be seriously overpaid.
If you noticed in almost all of the trade scenarios that created to lands us Amare, almost all but 1 still leaving us with pretty much the same cap space, because most of those deals we're for expiring contract players. Which probably makes it even harder to get a 3rd team to bite, that's why we'd have to sacrifice some picks and cash. Also by sacrificing the picks we'd regain about $3-4 Million in additional space for cap holds for both the 1st round picks. Just my opinion...
ReplyDeleteBut I do agree with you Chris that it's wayyyyy toooo late for Riley to be swinging for the fences and making a major deal, we're basically 4 months away from the original goal of '2010, so if he can't land Amare or Gay who's not even on the trading block he should stand pat and wait it out. Wade's already said he's willing to wait it out. I know he's wants to win now, but I think him walking away with the Allstar game MVP and us having a decent 2nd half of the season should be enough for to feel like the season wasn't a total lost. As long as Wade still feels like he's a star, I think he'll be fine.
Honestly like I said last week, I think Riley is practically going thru the motions to show Wade, "Hey, I'm trying to get something done..." and telling Amare "There could be a place for you too on South Beach this summer..."
I think FMB is saying Gay only counts $4.5 as a cap hold because he's coming off his rookie deal. I'm not sure about the figures, but I think the Birds Rights count against the cap to prevent teams from retaining a guys Bird Rights, using cap space to sign someone, and then going over the cap to resign the guy they have Bird Rights for.
ReplyDeleteFor example, if the Heat traded for Bosh now they would claim Bird Rights on Wade; Bosh; and also Beasley, Cook, Chalmers, and Jones buyout. Including the salaries on the books and the cap holds for Wade, Bosh, and the vacant roster spots the Heat would still have approx $8-10 mil in cap space to use in free agency or to acquire a player outright whose salary is in that range.
jb,
ReplyDeleteI hope I'm right......it sounds right. Anyway it would require trading for Gay.
I hope and pray that Hou isn't stupid enough to take on Jeffries contract just to get Jordan Hill, who hasn't shown crap in NY. If they do NY that HUGE favor then 2010 could get real interesting with NY then having the $$$ to offer two max deals like Miami.
ReplyDeleteI just saw the Howard "Superman" commercial on ESPN......that was good. Stick it to Shaq.
ReplyDeleteMachine gun posting, BABBEEEEE
ReplyDeletehttp://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64737/20100216/karl_compares_head_coach_value_to_4th_or_5th_starter/
ReplyDeleteNobody show this to Sledge or Ira as they believe coaches aren't necessary. Now I think Karl might be overvaluing coaches, I do think they rank (in importance) right with a good 6th man or deep bench.
After claiming he was done with his knee problem and he stopped wearing a brace on Friday, Heat forward Michael Beasley was relayed a message from president Pat Riley.
ReplyDeleteBeasley removed the brace from his hyperextended knee during Friday's Rookie-Sophomore game, but Riley quickly contacted Sophomore coach Patrick Ewing to tell the forward to put the brace back on.
The second-year star was also wearing it during practice on Monday.
"The man upstairs called Pat Ewing on me," Beasley said Monday in jest. "I had no choice. When The Man makes the call, I had to do it."
Miami believes that he needs to wear the brace for a few more games to ensure that there is no risk of further injury to his knee.
"He has to wear it," coach Erik Spoelstra said. "But he's getting close. If everything goes well, he'll probably be cleared some time this road trip. I know he's been a little frustrated with it, how it feels. It's been almost a month, which has gone fast."
Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64731/20100216/heat_force_beasley_to_wear_knee_brace/#ixzz0fiJKSMeA
Great article FMB... This makes me beg to wonder, How much does Spo make? LOL
ReplyDeleteI'm gonna post this on Ira's page for him and Slledge... I haven't posted there in a while...LOL
Sup guys it's GAMEDAY baby!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteFunny story. Riley is still telling Ewing what to do. I'd have loved to be in on that phone call.
ReplyDeleteSpoelstra and Haslem panicked when they saw the start Beasley was off too.. so they had to get Riley and Ewing involved to slow him down.
ReplyDeletePlease enlighten me as to why the Suns would want to trade Amare for J.J. Hickson and cap relief. Hickson's production is nothing special, and Lebron makes him look better than he really is (which is true of everybody on the Cavs). Are the Suns this desperate? Surely not...
ReplyDeleteChad Ford
(1:07 PM)
I've been wondering the same thing. Especially since we know Miami is in the mix. The best the Cavs can offer right now is Hickson plus their first round pick (which should be about No. 29 or No. 30). The Heat can offer the same cap relief as the Cavs plus they have Michael Beasley and they have two mid first round picks. How is that not a better deal for Phoenix? Even if they don't want Beasley, two first round picks from Miami is a better deal than Hickson. That's why I'm skeptical Cleveland makes this happen unless Steve Kerr is more interested in just helping out a friend or he's still bitter about the whole Shaq deal two February's ago.
Lou (NJ)
ReplyDeleteI read a rumor where the Sixers were a part of a 3 team deal to get Amare to Miami. We would basically be getting Beasley and cap relief for Iggy and Sammy and we turned it down??? How is Stefanski not jumping at this? We get a young building block and cap relief for 2 guys that are WAY overpaid. Seems like a no brainer.
Chad Ford
(1:12 PM)
I don't understand it either. Great deal for Philly and gives Phoenix want they want the most -- Iguodala.
Steven (NYC)
ReplyDeleteHi Chad, What else is out there for Miami if the Amare scenario dosn't go through?
Chad Ford
(1:34 PM)
I don't think much else. If they can't land Stoudemire, I think the most likely scenario is that they do nothing.
The dilema is that Kerr and Ferry are good friends. Kerr knows if he sends Amare to Miami there is a decent chance Lebron is tempted to join Miami ion the summer to join Wade and Amare thus ruining Ferry's career as a GM.
ReplyDeleteRiley has to go straight to the top and deal with Sarver only ( the Suns owner) and convince him Miami offers the best package. That would be the only way to get through the roadblock the Kerr/Ferry friendship poses.
James (Boston)
ReplyDeleteTrade deadline is fast approaching. Do you think Amare will actually make the Cavs better?
Chris Broussard (2:04 PM)
I do think it will go through. It's not a definite. Sometime before Thursday, I think they will close the deal. Phoenix is weighing its options and seeing if they want to trade him. It's a high risk, high reward kind of thing. Talent wise, the Cavs would improve. Think of the pick and roll with LeBron and Amare, it would be devastating. Sometimes other teams will lay off the Cavs' power forwards out on the perimeter. Now, you'd have to do that, because Amare can shoot that jumpshot. The biggest upside is that this goes a long way to assuring that you'll have LeBron James over the longhaul and that he'll re-sign over the summer. The risk is sometimes it's harder to work in a star over a role player. Amare is used to getting a certain number of shots up. Cleveland, because they've not had a star power forward, they don't really run plays for them. The playbook would have to change a little bit. Defensively, he's not a great defender. He potentially could be a good defender, because he's athletic and strong, but he's been in a system that hasn't taught or emphasized defense.
One league executive said he expects the Spurs to make overtures at the Miami Heat, who are shopping a number of players, including power forward Udonis Haslem and small forward Dorell Wright.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Spurs_Mason_open_to_a_trade.html
Web Posted: 02/16/2010 12:00 CST
ReplyDeleteSpurs' Mason open to a trade
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/84428837.html
One league executive said he expects the Spurs to make overtures at the Miami Heat, who are shopping a number of players, including power forward Udonis Haslem and small forward Dorell Wright.
-----
mike wallace just also tweeted regarding heat and possible mason interest.
haha u beat me!
ReplyDeleteI wonder would the Spurs give up Matt Bonner or if they could be sold on the whole 'change of scenery would do him good' on Cook.
ReplyDeleteSA is rumored to want a defensive big man. Haslem/Cook for Mason/Bonner works and cuts payroll by around 1.5M, as well as opening up 2.1M more cap space for the summer. Mason and Bonner are expirings.
If they want defense, then Beasley is there guy....I mean caged Boozer is too much offense for them.
ReplyDeleteHe'd finally fully morph into Realized Boozer. It's a function of how close he actually is to Boozer. All the way out in Miami, it's only about 20%. Move him to Texas (much closer to Utah) and the percentage ramps up to about 75-80.
ReplyDeletesaddest news of the day.
ReplyDeleteMiami tried to enlist Charlotte as 3rd-team to make Amar'e deal but failed, league sources said. Udonis Haslem would've gone to Charlotte.
38 minutes ago from web
http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA
Blazers PR says Camby will wear #21, last worn by Jamaal Magloire, who played a full season so uneventful it had already slipped my memory.
ReplyDelete7 minutes ago from web
http://twitter.com/johnhollinger
hollinger just added himself to magloire's hit-list.
dred99 said...
ReplyDeletesaddest news of the day.
Miami tried to enlist Charlotte as 3rd-team to make Amar'e deal but failed, league sources said. Udonis Haslem would've gone to Charlotte.
38 minutes ago from web
http://twitter.com/wojyahooNBA
February 16, 2010 5:58 PM
-------------------------
So close. :(
I have a question for you guys. I want to start out by saying that I really like Michael Beasley and though I would love to see him become the all-star he's going to be, I really don't see him as a member of the Miami Heat forever. With that out of the way, I was wondering what the effect on our cap would be next year if we were to trade Beasley for Stoudemire and he opts out of his contract. Obviously we'd have our precious cap space and then some in that situation, but couldn't we then hypothetically use that huge cap space to sign a third max free agent because we'd have Amare's bird rights? Wouldn't we then be able to spend a ton of money on either great role players or another superstar to play with Wade and Amare? If this is true, I might be coming around to the idea of trading Beasley (if the Cavs don't steal him for basically gas money)....just was dreaming about the possibility of a Wade + Amare + Joe Johnson/Rudy Gay/LBJ (although not very realistic)/Bosh (although Bosh and Stoudemire probably wouldn't mesh very well playing in tandem)/anyone we want really want...
ReplyDeleteDsky, by acquiring Stoudemire for Beasley, James Jones, Cook, and a first round pick we will have cleared the books entirely except for Chalmers contract. This means we will have over $50 million to spend. Should be enough to sign Wade, Stoudemire and another great wing player such as J. Johnson or Rudy Gay or even offer a max deal to Bosh to play center. So we can still have a nice core of Wade/Stoudemire/J.Johnson or Gay or a core of Wade/Stoudemire/Bosh. Or if you want to thimk big things we technically would have enough money to sign Wade/Lebron/Stoudemire
ReplyDeleteIf you trade Beasley, throwing in Jones and Cook, you effectively clear all monies Miami has for 2010 (outside of Wade and Amar'e). Chalmers and Anthony have options totaling less than 2M combined.
ReplyDeleteRe-sign Wade and Amare, that's about 32M. Add 2 for the two options I mentioned and you're looking at a payroll around 34M. The cap is expected to be around 53M. That's 19M leftover to fill out the roster, not including cap holds (around 490K each). You're not getting another superstar at those numbers. You could sign a complement of role players, depending on what's left of the FA market or what teams just want to get rid of salary. It depends on if you think that's a better option than paying Beasley 5M (and dealing with the 4M combined due to Jones and Cook) and only having around 10-11M to fill out the roster.
that all sounds like fun to me...then again, i play a lot of nba 2k10.
ReplyDeleteYou can get a more thorough read on Miami's cap options at the link below.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I hadn't considered is that a max for Rudy Gay is going to run cheaper than others, based on time in the league. Gay's max would start at 13.25M (25% of a projected 53M cap). That's as opposed to 15.9M (30%) for Wade/LeBron/Bosh/Amare; around 16.4M for re-signing your own guy. Joe Johnson's would be 35% of the cap or 18.55M.
http://www.hoopdata.com/recent.aspx?aid=156
POSTED: Feb. 16 -- 7:51 p.m. ET
ReplyDeleteStoudemire
J.A. Adande: With rampant speculation that Miami is trying to pry Amare Stoudemire from the Phoenix Suns before the Cleveland Cavaliers can get him, here are two possible scenarios.
According to an NBA source, the Heat are offering Daequan Cook, Quentin Richardson, Dorell Wright, Mario Chalmers and draft picks to the Suns. Cook is the only player among that group who is under contract for next season (Chalmers has a team option for $847,000). It is believed that the Suns would rather have a package from Cleveland that would include Zydrunas Ilgauskas, J.J. Hickson and a draft pick, with the young Hickson as the most appealing part of the package.
Another league source said the Suns would like to attach Jason Richardson to a Stoudemire trade, which would relieve Phoenix from having to pay Richardson's $14 million salary next season. The combined $29 million of outgoing salary from Stoudemire and Richardson this season would be too difficult for Cleveland to match to make a trade work under the salary-cap guidelines. Miami, however, could add the $23 million expiring salary of Jermaine O'Neal to the previously mentioned offer and come within the 25 percent range of matching salaries. I have yet to hear the Heat are willing to do so --- in fact a source said, "I'd be surprised if Miami took on [Richardson's] contract" --- but the possibility exists.
That would have obvious appeal to the Suns, allowing them to escape from luxury-tax land next season and positioning them to go after a major free agent this summer.
The Suns would be looking at nine players under contract for a total of about $33 million next season: Steve Nash ($10.3 million), Leandro Barbosa ($7.1 million), Grant Hill ($3.3 million player option), Channing Frye ($2 million player option), Goran Dragic ($2 million), Earl Clark ($1.9 million), Robin Lopez ($1.9 million), Jared Dudley ($2.2 million) and Cook ($2.2 million).
The Heat would be stuck with Richardson's contract and could potentially have Stoudemire opt out and leave them as a free agent. But they would also have Stoudemire's Larry Bird rights, enabling them to offer a longer and more lucrative contract than any other team. And they would have demonstrated to Dwyane Wade that they would do whatever it takes to bring another All-Star to play alongside him.